Manuals-going once....

[Rich Ragan]

After the Mace 5 loss, I thought I ought to chime in.

Syntegra (nee Control Data but not really anymore) has
decided that they no longer need my services anymore
(not enough work). So I am cleaning out my office. I
don't have any real cool stuff like old deadstart tapes
but I have a number of old CDC manuals which if someone
wants to pick up the shipping, I'll be glad to pass along.
You have about a week to think about it.

Regards, Richard Ragan

[Glen Herrmannsfeldt]

Post by Rich Ragan
After the Mace 5 loss, I thought I ought to chime in.
Syntegra (nee Control Data but not really anymore) has
decided that they no longer need my services anymore
(not enough work). So I am cleaning out my office. I
don't have any real cool stuff like old deadstart tapes
but I have a number of old CDC manuals which if someone
wants to pick up the shipping, I'll be glad to pass along.
You have about a week to think about it.

Send them to Al Kossow (I hope that is the right spelling). He collects
them, scans them, and puts them on the web for all to see.

-- glen

[Douglas H. Quebbeman]

Post by Rich Ragan
After the Mace 5 loss, I thought I ought to chime in.
Syntegra (nee Control Data but not really anymore) has
decided that they no longer need my services anymore
(not enough work). So I am cleaning out my office. I
don't have any real cool stuff like old deadstart tapes
but I have a number of old CDC manuals which if someone
wants to pick up the shipping, I'll be glad to pass along.
You have about a week to think about it.

Rich, I'll ditto what Glen suggested. You can reach Al Kossow
at ***@spies.com.

Who's left? Dave Cahlander? Bob Tate? Hoffmeister?

-doug quebbeman

[Charles Richmond]

Post by Douglas H. Quebbeman

Post by Rich Ragan
After the Mace 5 loss, I thought I ought to chime in.
Syntegra (nee Control Data but not really anymore) has
decided that they no longer need my services anymore
(not enough work). So I am cleaning out my office. I
don't have any real cool stuff like old deadstart tapes
but I have a number of old CDC manuals which if someone
wants to pick up the shipping, I'll be glad to pass along.
You have about a week to think about it.

Rich, I'll ditto what Glen suggested. You can reach Al Kossow
Who's left? Dave Cahlander? Bob Tate? Hoffmeister?

After Al Kossow scans in the manuals, maybe you can donate
the manuals to the Charles Babbage Institute:

<http://www.cbi.umn.edu/>


--
+----------------------------------------------------------------+
| Charles and Francis Richmond richmond at plano dot net |
+----------------------------------------------------------------+

[Douglas A. Gwyn]

Post by Charles Richmond
After Al Kossow scans in the manuals, maybe you can donate

An excellent suggestion. They have an extensive collection
of CDC product manuals, but by no means complete. I did
some research there and the staff was very helpful.

[Douglas H. Quebbeman]

Post by Douglas A. Gwyn

Post by Charles Richmond
After Al Kossow scans in the manuals, maybe you can donate

An excellent suggestion. They have an extensive collection
of CDC product manuals, but by no means complete. I did
some research there and the staff was very helpful.

One of the curators told me that the CDC stuff they've got
that *hasn't* been cataloged or inventoried yet dwarfs the
stuff that has been inventoried... so its possible they've
got tons of stuff.

ISTR she also mentioned magtapes...

-dq

[Douglas A. Gwyn]

Post by Douglas H. Quebbeman
ISTR she also mentioned magtapes...

My recommendation for magtapes and disks is that they be handed
over to a data restorer ASAP, with the aim of capturing their
content into some more accessible and more preservable form.
The best format to save disks in is an image copy in a single
large binary file, although for non-octet organization some
convention needs to be adopted for encoding the units into
octet sequences. The best format to save magtapes is TAP
format, one magtape per file, which embeds information about
record lengths and tape marks. Software simulators sich as
E11 and SIMH can use such file images directly.

The reason this should be done ASAP is because the storage
medium deteriorates over time. Many old magtapes have had
the oxide come unstuck from the substrate due to chemical
change in the binder, causing the contained data to be lost
forever.

One of my spare-time activities consists of capturing 9-track
magtape images into TAP files on CD-ROM. I had about a 90%
success rate until I encountered a batch of FILES-11 RSX-11M
source tapes, which I had to shelve until I get my Kybe tape
reconditioner/tester going.

You would think that *some* agency ought to be officially
tasked with such preservation. NARA, though, is concerned
only with official government records, and even there they
tend to concentrate on "popular" archives rather than some
with deeper fundamental value.

[Douglas A. Gwyn]

A tape scraper is a REALLY bad idea.

For some tapes it will be necessary, to remove chunks of oxide that have
already come loose and stuck to the adjoining layer. (This is on the
assumption that recovering the majority of the data is worth the effort.)

What I'd really like to see is an attachment for one of my tape drives
that collects the oxide as it scrapes loose, to prevent the tape from
sticking to the read head once oxide has built up. A first-class tape
recovery facility would hopefully have such equipment.

Talk to Tim Shoppa, and see if he's willing to attempt a recovery
of these for you.

Unless he has more specialized equipment than just another tape drive,
what advantage would that bring?


Anyway, the main point is that "the community" needs to make a serious
effort to preserve as much system software and documentation as we can,
before it is lost forever. I appreciate your archive of scanned
manuals; we need something similar for the software.

[Al Kossow]

Post by Douglas A. Gwyn
Anyway, the main point is that "the community" needs to make a serious
effort to preserve as much system software and documentation as we can,
before it is lost forever. I appreciate your archive of scanned
manuals; we need something similar for the software.

Absolutely right. I have a domain called "bitsavers.org" for that
purpose, and there was a "bitsavers" mailing list which I shut down
because of spam and general lack of interest.

The most visible archiving going on is part of Bob Supnik's SIMH
effort. A lot is going on behind the scenes as well.

Another problem is convincing people that are sitting on tape
collections that they need to be read NOW, not when they retire
or when they can get their 40 year old 7 track drive and 1604
to work again

(Michael Grigoni's reply when I offered to help recover the CDC
data he just about lost earlier this year )

----


What I'd really like to see is an attachment for one of my tape drives
that collects the oxide as it scrapes loose

----

I assume you mean clean it off of the tape cleaner
that is just before the erase head?

[Douglas A. Gwyn]

Post by Al Kossow
I assume you mean clean it off of the tape cleaner
that is just before the erase head?

Yeah, or whatever it takes to keep the tape from sticking
to the head before it egets all the way through the reel.
Something like a buffer pad of isopropanol, perhaps..

[Al Kossow]

Post by Douglas A. Gwyn
Yeah, or whatever it takes to keep the tape from sticking
to the head before it egets all the way through the reel.

I know that sound all too well :-(

Two of my drives have had the interlocks removed and if you
are careful, you can wet the tape with alcohol just before
it gets to the tape cleaner using a 'q-tip' using just enough
force to keep the tape from lifting off the read head. With
a bit of practice you can use just enough to keep the tape
moving while rewetting the applicator.

If you try this, assume that you are only going to have one
pass at reading (disable retries on the drive). Once you've
started the tape moving, you don't want the tape motion to
stop. I have had tapes where the layers have stuck together
so badly that the oxide strips completely off leaving nothing
but clear tape, which is then sensed as EOT. It seems that
once the oxide starts peeling, the only thing you can do is
keep the tape moving until it stops. I haven't figured out
anything you can do once the layers glue themselves together
like that. The conventional wisdom of baking at 120 deg for
several hours doesn't appear to help once it gets that bad.
It will help reduce the amount of shedding though.

And, there is a very good chance that the alcohol will do bad
things to the tape itself, so assume you are only going to have
one shot at reading. Try to recover all of the data out of the
buffers, even if it has errors (this doesn't appear to be possible
if you are using a drive that has a SCSI interface).

Whenever you are working with tapes that are shedding, make
sure to clean the head, cleaner and tape path after every
tape, too.

Cheap early 80's brands are the worst: Memorex (Gray and Silver
label followed by Red) , BASF Endura, and whatever the junk was
that DEC was using for their software distributions then :-(

[Douglas A. Gwyn]

Post by Al Kossow
If you try this, assume that you are only going to have one
pass at reading (disable retries on the drive). Once you've
started the tape moving, you don't want the tape motion to
stop.

Yes, indeed, in fact all my magtape utilities are double-
buffered to keep the tape moving nonstop. Unfortunately
I don't have a lot of control over retries due to device
driver limitations (I generally use a SCSI interface on
Solaris for such work).

Post by Al Kossow
Whenever you are working with tapes that are shedding, make
sure to clean the head, cleaner and tape path after every
tape, too.

Yes, indeed.

Post by Al Kossow
Cheap early 80's brands are the worst: Memorex (Gray and Silver
label followed by Red) , BASF Endura, and whatever the junk was
that DEC was using for their software distributions then :-(

Yes, the DEC distribution tapes are among the worst I've
had to deal with. I think in some cases the magnetization
is gone rather than the oxide layer.

[Al Kossow]

Post by Douglas A. Gwyn
Yes, the DEC distribution tapes are among the worst I've
had to deal with. I think in some cases the magnetization
is gone rather than the oxide layer.

I don't appear to have a current email adr for you. Could you
send me a msg off list?

[Eugene Miya]

Post by Al Kossow

Post by Douglas A. Gwyn
Anyway, the main point is that "the community" needs to make a serious
effort to preserve as much system software and documentation as we can,
before it is lost forever. I appreciate your archive of scanned
manuals; we need something similar for the software.

Another problem is convincing people that are sitting on tape
collections that they need to be read NOW, not when they retire
or when they can get their 40 year old 7 track drive and 1604
to work again

The problem is the perceived economic value of things.

Just as you cannot convince every one for the value of the public domain
and open systems, it is not lost to people that limit numbers of copies
of anything doesn't offer an tempting resource topic.

[Eugene Miya]

Post by Douglas A. Gwyn
You would think that *some* agency ought to be officially
tasked with such preservation. NARA, though, is concerned
only with official government records, and even there they
tend to concentrate on "popular" archives rather than some
with deeper fundamental value.

NARA is only concerned with documents of the Executive Branch
of the US Govt. The Library of Congress (LC or LoC) has taken on
some responsibility for copyright, but that is really more
convention. LC does regularly toss old stuff. This is all in flux.

There is a new White House organization, the IMLS for Museums and
Libraries, but only time will tell how effect they are.
Beware inherent hardware biases.

[Rich Ragan]

Post by Douglas H. Quebbeman
Rich, I'll ditto what Glen suggested. You can reach Al Kossow
Who's left? Dave Cahlander? Bob Tate? Hoffmeister?

I know Dave Cahlander is still around as a contractor and I spoke with Bob not long ago but they might be among the last few.

I emailed Al and will work with him

Of course, if you have any job leads in the Bay Area, I'm interested in learning about them or in meeting with folks who might know
folks who are looking for good people.

Cheers, Rich

[Lee Courtney]

Rich,

I suggest letting Al Kossow for scanning then have the paper copies donated
to the Computer History Museum (www.computerhistory.org). Al and I saw each
other weekend before last at the Computer History Museum's Volunteer
Appreciation BBQ - he's local and has made many valuable cobntributions to
preserving computing history and the Museum.

The manual would go nicely with the CDC 1604, CDC 6600 (SN 1), CDC 7600 (SN
1), and Cray-1 that are in the Collection and on display at the Museum.

Lee Courtney

Post by Rich Ragan
After the Mace 5 loss, I thought I ought to chime in.
Syntegra (nee Control Data but not really anymore) has
decided that they no longer need my services anymore
(not enough work). So I am cleaning out my office. I
don't have any real cool stuff like old deadstart tapes
but I have a number of old CDC manuals which if someone
wants to pick up the shipping, I'll be glad to pass along.
You have about a week to think about it.
Regards, Richard Ragan

[Jitze Couperus]

On Sun, 24 Aug 2003 23:12:59 GMT, "Rich Ragan"
<snip>

- Control Data 6600 SIPROS 66 OS Reference Manual, First edition

<snip>

Yup - I got that one too - how many other OS's can you name
for which a manual was produced, but the s/w never saw the light
of day?

It's a pity that one was never produced for ECOPS (as far as I know)

The management never realized that ECOPS was an anagram
of SCOPE (...at least they never let on) thus implying "the same
content but scrambled sufficient to make it a senseless jumble"
in the immortal words of customer Richard from MSU.

- FORTRAN Extended Model 72,73,74 V4, Model 76 V2, 7600 V2, 6000 V4, 1971. (This is the "rare" multicolor manual where blue text=CDC
Extensions to ANSI FORTRAN, red=7600 only text, green=6000 only text) Not sure if scanning can be done in color for this manual.

I have the Cobol equivalent of this manual - black print + 3 colors
denoting Scope, Kronos, and 7600 variations. We were so proud
of this - until it got shot down at some VIM meeting as being
useless for color-blind programmers. (Customers could be so
ungratefull. The unspoken response - "See Fig 1")

Jitze

[Harlequin]

Yup, I have a copy ET.

I remember seeing the infamous "see fig. 1" document once. Does anyone
have a complete copy of it?

Post by Jitze Couperus
On Sun, 24 Aug 2003 23:12:59 GMT, "Rich Ragan"
useless for color-blind programmers. (Customers could be so
ungratefull. The unspoken response - "See Fig 1")
Jitze

[Rich Ragan]

Though not in the category of machines that never saw the light of day (I do recall the HEP)
I find that I have some original manuals for IBM plugcard devices lurking in the attic.
IBM 519 Reproducing punch and IBM 08x sorters in particular. Any idea if these
manuals are of interest to the museum?

I also have an IBM 709 hardware manual but I'm not sure I'm quite ready to part with it
(you never forget your first computer it seems).
Fortunately, I got some pictures of it before as it was being sold off at auction. It was
eventually bought for the large amounts of copper in the cabling.

http://www.smwarren.com/709/

The THINK sign in the picture is still in my possession. An original IBM orange one.

I also spotted a B5500 manual and a Univac 1108 manual though I never worked on
these machines,

Other curiosities in the software category include is a manual on MAD (Michigan Algorithmic Decoder),
Apple (a language for the STAR 100 done at GM), a compiler listing for FASTRAN (I can't even recall
where this came from or who built it), a listing for the 1401 Autocoder implementation, some IBM
IBSYS manuals, System 360 Principles of Operation (POO as it was called). That's all that
comes to mind right now but another foray might turn up some other stuff.

Rich

Post by Jitze Couperus
Yup - I got that one too - how many other OS's can you name
for which a manual was produced, but the s/w never saw the light
of day?

Almost as many manuals as for hardware which never saw the light of day.
The key is actually which is the larger number.
I wish that I had kept a slew of those manuals for the Museum.
HEP (Denelcor) manuals being the most recent that I wish I had better kept.

[Eugene Miya]

Post by Rich Ragan
Though not in the category of machines that never saw the light of day (I do recall the HEP)
I find that I have some original manuals for IBM plugcard devices lurking in the attic.
IBM 519 Reproducing punch and IBM 08x sorters in particular. Any idea if these
manuals are of interest to the museum?

Yes.
I recommend via the Kossow route as others have done.

Post by Rich Ragan
I also have an IBM 709 hardware manual but I'm not sure I'm quite ready to part with it
(you never forget your first computer it seems).
Fortunately, I got some pictures of it before as it was being sold off at auction. It was
eventually bought for the large amounts of copper in the cabling.
http://www.smwarren.com/709/
The THINK sign in the picture is still in my possession. An original IBM orange one.

We have those, I think we could use more, we just have to check.
We had an IBM VIP go through last week.

Post by Rich Ragan
I also spotted a B5500 manual and a Univac 1108 manual though I never worked on
these machines,

What we need are 5500s and 1108s.
I know we are in touch with Unisys.

Post by Rich Ragan
Other curiosities in the software category include is a manual on MAD (Michigan Algorithmic Decoder),
Apple (a language for the STAR 100 done at GM), a compiler listing for FASTRAN (I can't even recall
where this came from or who built it), a listing for the 1401 Autocoder implementation, some IBM
IBSYS manuals, System 360 Principles of Operation (POO as it was called). That's all that
comes to mind right now but another foray might turn up some other stuff.

[Al Kossow]

Post by Eugene Miya
I recommend via the Kossow route as others have done.

I picked up the documents this past Saturday, and am working through
the scanning process now.

A few of the 6600 manuals are now on line.

[Rich Ragan]

Post by Al Kossow

Post by Eugene Miya
I recommend via the Kossow route as others have done.

I picked up the documents this past Saturday, and am working through
the scanning process now.
A few of the 6600 manuals are now on line.

Posted where online, Al.
Thanks for your good work.

Rich

[Al Kossow]

Post by Rich Ragan
Posted where online, Al.
Thanks for your good work.

www.spies.com/aek/pdf/cdc

[Jack Bohnhoff]

I am in contact with Al Kossow and plan to pass the manuals on to him for
scanning and thence to the Computer History Museum
- Control Data 6600 SIPROS 66 OS Reference Manual, First edition
- Application Development Bulletin Scope Operating System 3.0
- Application Development Bulletin 64/6600 Fortran Conversion Guide
- Application Development Bulletin 64/6600 ASCENT version 2.0
- 64/6600 Systems Bulletin 3, Oct 1966 (covering Scope 2.0, Fortran 2.0 and
Pert/Time 1.0)
- SCOPE Reference Manual, Sept 1966
- SCOPE Reference Manual, April 1967
- SCOPE 3.1 Reference Manual , Feb 1968
- FORTRAN Extended Model 72,73,74 V4, Model 76 V2, 7600 V2, 6000 V4, 1971.
(This is the "rare" multicolor manual where blue text=CDC
Extensions to ANSI FORTRAN, red=7600 only text, green=6000 only text) Not
sure if scanning can be done in color for this manual.
- Chippewa OS Reference Manual, December 1965.
- Chippewa OS Fortran Reference Manual, May 1966.
- Control Data 6000 Reference Manual, July 1965
- Control Data 6000 Series Computer Systems, Input/Output Specifications
- Control Data 6600 ASCENT Reference Manual, 2nd edition
- Control Data 6000 Series Chippewa OS Documentation (Preliminary Edition,
Volumes 1, 2, 3) May 1966
Manuals for a full training course on Chippewa 1.0
- COMPASS Reference Manual, Aug, 1963
- Control Data 3600 SCOPE Reference Manual
- Control Data 3600 Computer System Reference Manual (11/63 version and 7/1964 version)
Regards, Rich Ragan

Dunno, man... this stuff is so nostalgic... I remember sitting in your
office a few times talking about the Crow Nose Opera Rating System vs.
that piece of crap SCOPE ;-) [joking...]

Hope you've found a good repository for the documents.

__
Jack Bohnhoff